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Thread: Do you think Canon is paying bloggers to write well about R5 and R6

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    Default Do you think Canon is paying bloggers to write well about R5 and R6

    After the R5 and R6 had reports of overheating, it seems Canon has gone into heavy damage control mode and probably paying bloggers to write well about these two cameras. DPReview has even given it awards for being best camera, even in video category.

    In the words of DPReview: “in its media release, Canon stated the approximate recording time for 8K 30p video with the R5 before the camera overheated is about 20 minutes. After letting the camera cool for 10 minutes, users can expect to record another 3 minutes of 8K footage before the camera overheats again. It's a better, albeit similar, situation when recording 4K 60p and 4K 30p (8.2K oversampling) video. The feature set of the R5 and its performance is impressive, but in many settings, overheating is problematic.”

    Then they go ahead and award it best runner up camera for video! When that award should have gone to Nikon Z6.

    With its overheating issues, the R5 and R6 are NOT CAMERAS ANYONE WOULD RECOMMEND FOR VIDEO.

    I Shoot Video professionally and 90% of the time my camera of choice is Arri Alexa.
    I once shot with Sony A7 series DSLR because the client didn’t have money. We were shooting in the oppressive summer heat of Mumbai and the camera kept shutting down because of overheating. It’s a pain. Actors get into the mood and camera won’t start. In the middle of a scene, camera stops. It’s not forgiveable.
    Thankfully, the client who was sitting there, understood, and offered a little more budget and we got a Red Camera from a regular vendor on discount and finally completed the shoot.

    Each minute of production is very very crucial and expensive. One cannot be waiting for a camera which isn’t starting because it got overheated. Moments lost cannot be recreated. Yet if you search around every blog and photo website is singing praises of the Canon R5-R6.

    My Canon EOS 5D Mark2 has died. I wanted to buy the R6. Even my camera vendor is suggesting I shouldn’t and wait it out because his customers are complaining. But bloggers are writing well.

    I have recently shot with Nikon Z6 recording to external Atomos Shogun in 4k 10bit and was very happy with the results. I always use a DSLR on a rig camera, unattended (obviously). Reliability is super crucial in film making. I strongly recommend Nikon Z6 or Panasonic S1H or even LUMIX GH5-6 for video.

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    Are you intending the R5/R6 as B camera? The overheating is problematic definitely. I saw reports of better performance after the firmware update. I think some 20 mins plus 8k shooting at a stretch. Someone has gone in and done surgery to use a copper strip inside, which I won't have the guts to do. And even then, the software limits the shooting. :-)

    I have yet to see someone shoot R5 in the kind of environments we normally shoot in India, outdoors as well as indoors. Shooting for a few minutes in a safari style situation is ok. Not for long time though. So that clearly removes the use case of short films, corporate interviews etc. Unless you use a cold gel to cool down and use two camera bodies, I am not sure short films can be done. Also, that may not look very professional in front of clients asking them to wait while the camera is cooling down.

    I don't think Canon would be paying bloggers to write good stuff. Canon often gives cameras for review and then you return it back. Some of the youtubers with massive fan following are not filmmakers. A lot of folks who are in the Canon explorer/influencers are basically still photographers and tour leaders who can influence sales through social media. Some of them have learnt their photography here and are now social media influencers. When these people see incredibly detailed 8K video then they would obviously like it. They don't need to shoot for a long time and won't push the camera. So would say that the camera works.

    The small size of the R5 has its constraints. A 1DX sized camera with the 8K sensor of the R5 would have been much better in terms of heat management.

    The 2020 Olympics will be held in 2021 in Japan. So I am waiting to see what Canon is going to do. Am hoping that a further firmware update would improve the shooting time of R5. As far as cinema camera is concerned, I hear that a 8K cinema camera is on the works from Canon. Recently a client for a nature documentary was discussing 4K 120p for 10% of the shoot and rest in 8K. There is a recent trend towards reframing in post. Am not a big fan of that but I find more corporate clients asking for that. A couple of years ago, when Sotheby's International Realty was entering India, I was tasked with shooting a promo video of their entry to Delhi. It showed all notable locations of Delhi. So shot various locations in Delhi for few mins each. I had done that with a C300 cinema camera. However, now I see that it can be done with a ESO R5. Shoot for few mins and then move on. So EOS R5 is a very niche kind of camera at the moment.

    Have you used the C200 with its raw lite as that can be set up unguarded in your type of shoots?

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    It’s not about the C200 (I have never really used it, when budgets are low I have preferred a Sony FS7).

    What I find alarming is how, in the same breath, large sites which influence people, like DPReview, have an entire article on how poor video shooting experience is with the R5/R6 and in the same breath they give it top awards. (On their own home page was an art I,e about a guy who rigged a liquid cooling system on the R6 but it didn’t work because software shut down the camera after 20 mins).

    Today there ar a gazillion cameras out there, and almost all of them are good cameras. But a camera which doesn’t let you shoot WHEN YOU WANT TO SHOOT, is NOT A GOOD CAMERA.

    From DPReview:
    “As a 'do everything' camera for enthusiast photographers the Canon EOS R6 is very hard to beat and is likely to remain competitive for a long time. As such, it's a worthy winner of our 2020 DPReview Award for best midrange ILC.”
    The R6 doesn’t do everything. It shoots 20mp stills which isn’t very high res by today’s standards.
    It shuts down after 20 mins of video, which doesn’t help either.
    How can it be “a very hard camera to beat”?

    Fuji, Sony, Panasonic, Nikon, Olympus, they all have cameras which have better performance than Canon R5/R6.

    As for the firmware update, I would rather wait for the hardware upgrade. If the internal circuitry gets unbearably hot, no amount of software can alter that.

    This is how companies aggressively market products. The first time 5D shot video, the marketing blitz convinced everyone it was “gods answer to video” (even though older DSLrs around the same time could also shoot video,they never aggressively marketed it for that) . People swore by it, almost with religious fervour. However I remember my editor friends would tear their hair, as the early 5Ds wouldn’t have a consistent frame rate, often throwing dialogue off sync. My grader friends would hate it so much because it had no room for grading it’s massively contrasts image. I was once going to shoot a low budget video and my production assistant said “why don’t we get a 5D”. I asked why? He said “I have heard it’s a very good camera”.

    Of course over a period of years it improved. But by then, I discovered Sony’s A series DSLRs have had much better image quality than Canon.
    Last edited by Paramvir Singh; 06-12-2020 at 07:30 AM.

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    As far as original 5D II is concerned, the 5D II camera was launched within a few days of D90. Launch dates are marketing decisions. Just that Canon marketing decided to launch on 5D Mark II on September 17, 2008. Nikon D90 was launched on August 27th 2008. Basically launched 20 days apart. More importantly Nikon D90 was limited to 720p. Canon 5D II was the only camera to have Full HD video at that time. However, it didn't have 24p at that time which was done via a firmware update later. There was no other DSLR at that time that had Video features built in. I remember the rage about 5D II camera because Vincent Laforet made a short video with the 5D II and everybody took notice. The DSLR video revolution began with it.

    DPreview is owned by Amazon. People are supposed to buy using amazon links posted in the DP reviews. So I am wondering does it really matter if it is a Canon or a Sony as end benefit would be sales from Amazon. Ofcourse, some people will also buy from different vendors. Nevertheless, my media friends who run award shows tell me that award functions are often a heartburn for corporates and need some tightrope walking. After your post, I read DPreviews reasoning for giving the award to EOS R5. They say they excluded the 8K and 4K downsampled form 8K feature and even then they found the R5 to be better. I have no view on that. Having said that, one of the descriptions for a photo reads "The EOS R5 can adapt to just about any type of photography you can think of. Even photography in the time of Covid, where you're not allowed many places." Some one can argue that it sounds like a marketing text lifted from a company. :-) On another note, after this controversy, I wonder what the sales figures are for the R5.

    I don't remember Canon ever doing a hardware update in their cameras. In the cinema series in the original Canon C300 and the Canon C100 cameras Canon had offered autofocus upgrade. I had spent 30K to get the DPAF which was only operating in the central AF area. And I don't think that needed some hardware change. Perhaps it was some kind of sensor calibration or some such thing. So I am not very hopeful about the EOS R5 hardware upgrade to include a better heatsink. Perhaps Canon thought it is better to have the R5 shoot only a few minutes of 8K, so that they don't compete with the future Cinema camera which will have 8K. Nevertheless, branding it as revolutionary as the 5D Mark II raised more expectations than necessary. So they have to deal with the anger over heating issues.

    I wish Canon atleast launches a paid upgrade to insert a better heatsink in the R5/F6. Many people will be very happy and will gladly pay for it. The guy who made the R5 surgery to insert a copper heatsink says that it works well along with an external fan. TILTA had announced a fan like that. Not sure what happened to it.

    I think if one doesn't need a still camera then simply buying a Canon C70, their newly launched cinema camera in the RF mount will be good. The 4K video of C70 is now approved by Netflix. Just saw a video by someone comparing the C70 with RED Komodo and the C70 holds up very well including in its 4K 120p mode. Nevertheless, for many situations we need a hybrid stills shooter. So I wish the overheating issue of R5 is sorted out soonest.

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    I normally always though DPReviews were reliable, but I guess they aren’t, like so many things these days. I am actually a Nikon person and my wife a Canon.
    So I get to experiment with both systems.
    And I feel for this year, my personal best camera award would go to Nikon Z6. Shoots amazing stills, amazing video (even 10bit 4K though with external recording), and doesn’t overheat and tonnes of available lenses.
    In fact the Nikon Z6II promises to deliver 12bit 4K ProRes RAW with an external Atomos Ninja recorder. Most people wouldn’t need better quality that this.

    Panasonic LUMIX S1 is also super, but much more expensive.
    My regular camera vendor ha also asked me to hold on, and wait for R6 updated (maybe R6 Mark II), as he is facing many people unhappy or returning their cameras.
    Interestingly, Canon 5D Mark IV, a proven versatile DSLR is sold at almost exactly the same price as R6 and seems to have an increase in demand.

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